Q1: First, it was religion that provided all the answers, but for the last century or so, it has been unseated from the high pedestal by science. Would you say that religion is now desperately trying to unseat science as the panacea for most human ills, or is it a time of convergence or coexistence, even if a turbulent one?
Amma: I don’t see any such desperate effort on the part of religion to “unseat science.” It is true that science has made tremendous contributions in the areas of technology, medicine and so forth. It has also helped increase the physical comforts of people and their understanding of the physical world. Nevertheless, religion — or, more precisely, spirituality — will always play a vital role in human life because whereas science focuses on the external world, spirituality is focused on the inner world the discovery of inner peace, contentment, compassion and love. Therefore, there will never come a time when spirituality and its solutions become irrelevant.
Sanatana Dharma, otherwise known as Hinduism, has never considered science and spirituality at odds. They are like two wings of a bird. Otherwise, how do you think this country was able to make such giant strides not only in spirituality but also in economics, mathematics, astrology, astronomy, warfare, medicine, chemistry, physics, psychology, sociology, grammar, etc, thousands of years ago? Way before the word ‘modern’ was invented, India was ‘modernised.’ But, yes, I agree, it is high time we thought of a true meeting not just a meeting of bodies but a meeting of hearts. Such a meeting will be possible only if both the religious and scientific sides develop a spiritual perspective. By ‘spiritual perspective,’ I mean going past the external differences we see in various faiths to the fundamental principles.
Q2: If there is convergence, then are there specific areas demarcated for the two that are watertight compartments? Or is it more the case of a continuum, where spirituality overlaps science or vice versa?
Amma: In fact, one of the biggest mistakes we ever made was to separate science and spirituality. These two branches of knowledge should have moved together, hand in hand. By dividing them, we created two sets of people, the so-called ‘rationalists’ and the so-called ‘religious people.’ The question then became, ‘Which side are you on? Science or spirituality?’ Q3: If scientific methods based on materialistic philosophy contributed much to the modern world, as we know it, has it also, through academia, restricted science from exploring other modules, thus preventing the equally important studies of mind and spirituality? Would you agree? Amma: Our educational system certainly played a big role in creating this barrier. Focusing only on collecting information from the outside world, or objective knowledge, the system totally neglected the subjective world — the inner light of true wisdom. In other words, we gave too much importance to our physical existence in the world at the cost of exploring our inner spiritual existence. We even forgot to truly study the mind and its infinite potential. In our attempts to air-condition the external world, we disregarded the heat that has gradually been increasing in our minds. Spirituality teaches us how to air-condition the mind.
Q4: At a time when science is striving to provide answers to almost all the questions on evolution, cosmology, and the complexities of the human body and mind, which were hitherto elusive to human comprehension, what role does spirituality play other than a supplementary one?
Amma: It is a mistake to think that science can provide all the answers to questions on the evolution of the human body and mind, and the universe. Even eminent scientists don’t believe in that. Mature scientists strongly believe in an unknown principle, something beyond human comprehension, that strings everything together. Objective science alone is insufficient to provide answers to all the mysteries of the universe. It definitely needs the help of spiritual science to dive deep into the unknown realms of human existence. So, spirituality is not supplementary but complementary to modern science.
Recently, a scientist from the Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) told Amma, “Until quite recently, modern scientists believed that the universe and all living beings were separate entities, without any real relation to each other. Today, the outlook of scientists has completely changed. Science now claims that miniscule movements in stars, light years away, affect even small blades of grass on planet earth.”
Q5: What are the spiritual dimensions of life? Are science and spirituality mutually exclusive or inclusive, or does the reality lie somewhere in between?
Amma: Life is both logical and mysterious— perhaps, more mysterious than logical. Human rationality has its limitations. Let us evaluate the whole situation with an impartial and discerning eye, rather than be one-sided. A partial approach has always posed a challenge to the whole world. How else can one explain the widespread imbalance that we are experiencing both in the human mind and in nature all over the world? Hence, when science cannot solve certain problems, we must be willing to turn to spiritual and religious texts for answers, and vice versa. Don’t we need both our right and left leg to walk without faltering? Likewise, let us try to create a balance between the subjective and objective worlds.
Q6: Is the scope of spirituality limited only to those elements our senses cannot perceive?
Amma: That is not true. In reality, spirituality and life are not two. They are one. Life in the world, or our material existence, should be based on spiritual values. The atrocities that we see all over the world, the heartless acts of men towards women and even little children, our selfish attitude towards nature and the environment, the exploitation of the weaker sections of society, youngsters going astray, their emotional immaturity, their lack of discernment, and the disrespect they show towards their parents and teachers... All of these are visible results of an erosion of spiritual values. So, the scope of spirituality extends to all areas of life because human existence has no meaning without spiritual values such as love, compassion, forgiveness and patience.
Q7:In your opinion, what is a scientific approach to spirituality? Would you say spirituality is a branch of science, or is it the other way around?
Amma: I don’t understand why people always look for scientific proofs and opinions. Isn’t it the mother who points out the father to the child? And the child completely accepts the mother’s words — doesn’t it? It is pure faith. Does any child demand that its mother provide solid evidence to substantiate her statement? Mysteries must be accepted as they are. When facts are not available, faith is the only way. Believing in mysteries is yet another beautiful approach to life and the ultimate power beyond human understanding. Spirituality in itself is perfect. Science should be rooted in spirituality, and vice versa.
Q8: There is a general perception that science is antagonistic to spirituality. If this is the reality, have we been guilty of looking at science and spirituality from a narrow spectrum? Amma: Human perception about almost everything, not just about science and spirituality, has always been skewed. But that is how the mind and ego work. People think the ego is a prerequisite for all accomplishments. In fact, it is a stumbling block to human relationships and an individual’s inner growth. One of the main purposes of spiritual practices is to minimise the interference of the ego, when it is not required, thereby maximising one’s happiness and peace.
Q9: Would you say it is your innate desire to forge a convergence between spirituality and science that drives many of your institutions of scientific learning and of course the Amrita Institute of Medical Science, which strives to set benchmarks in pathbreaking medical intervention to save human life?
Amma: Yes. I would say a balanced blend of science and spirituality is the need of the hour. Bringing the two together in a way that benefits the underprivileged is certainly one of my dreams. People in general and professionals in particular think that spirituality is against science and materialism. It is not true. Conversely, spirituality teaches that science and materialism ought to be used for the uplift of the poor and downtrodden. It is actually beneficial to both the spiritual practitioner and the less-fortunate people of this world. Spiritual seekers must be selfless. Their goal is to purify their thoughts and mind by performing selfless actions, without expecting anything in return. In other words, they must have the willingness and understanding to accept both the good and bad with equal vision. So, by offering their services to society, spiritual seekers not only attain purity of mind but also benefit the poor and needy. It is this vision of holistic growth that is being implemented in Amrita University and through the ashram’s humanitarian activities.
Q10: Why is it that despite the advances made by science, humanity keeps failing time and again to understand the inner self or to arrive at some kind of order in consciousness?
Amma: Science deals with the objective world, whereas spirituality deals with the subjective world — the essence of one’s existence. The former is all about the seen— the world—and the latter is entirely about the seer—the indwelling self, without which the diverse world of names and forms does not exist. One is gross, and the other, subtle.
People seek instant gratification. The closest thing they know is their body and the objects they can perceive through their senses. The inner self is something unknown to them. There are many people who have an intellectual understanding about the existence of the ultimate reality — the pure unconditional consciousness that serves as the unchangeable substratum of the objective world —but completely establishing ourselves in that understanding is what is ultimately required. This is the point of self-inquiry. This is not as easy as knowing the body and the desires associated with it. So, people naturally pursue the known rather than the unknown, which, in reality, is one’s own true self. Thus, they gravitate towards the gross objects of the world rather than towards the subtle principles of spirituality and life.
MYSTERIES MUST BE ACCEPTED AS THEY ARE. WHEN FACTS ARE NOT AVAILABLE, FAITH IS THE ONLY WAY. BELIEVING IN MYSTERIES IS YET ANOTHER BEAUTIFUL APPROACH TO LIFE AND THE ULTIMATE POWER BEYOND HUMAN UNDERSTANDING. ONE OF THE MAIN PURPOSES OF SPIRITUAL PRACTICES IS TO MINIMISE THE INTERFERENCE OF EGO, WHEN IT IS NOT REQUIRED, THEREBY MAXIMISING ONE’S HAPPINESS AND PEACE. SPIRITUALITY TEACHES THAT SCIENCE AND MATERIALISM OUGHT TO BE USED FOR THE UPLIFT OF THE POOR AND DOWNTRODDEN. IT IS ACTUALLY BENEFICIAL TO BOTH - SPIRITUAL PRACTITIONER AND THE LESSFORTUNATE PEOPLE OF THIS WORLD. SPIRITUAL SEEKERS MUST BE SELFLESS. THEIR GOAL IS TO PURIFY THEIR THOUGHTS AND MIND BY PERFORMING SELFLESS ACTIONS. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY MUST HAVE THE WILLINGNESS AND UNDERSTANDING TO ACCEPT BOTH THE GOOD AND BAD WITH EQUAL VISION
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